Author Topic: Help with Bird and balance in Lighthouse?  (Read 33697 times)

Offline hater

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Help with Bird and balance in Lighthouse?
« on: 07 November, 2011, 16:20:14 »
Hi, I have been playing for about 3 weeks. I can do all the tricks in the beginner list (except lighthouse) and some little combos, but it's totally impossible for me to maintain the balance in lighthouse. I have tried and tried but can't have it for more than 2 seconds and always moving mi arm to maintain it there, not like in the videos I have seen that they can put it in balance very easy -.-U

My other problem is with Bird. I can't find the right angle to land it, it always fall to one side or the other. I have tried and saw a lot of videos, I can land it maybe 1 out of 20 attempts, very depressing -_-

Please guys, help me with this, I need some help to improve my game.

Offline Mark

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Re: Help with Bird and balance in Lighthouse?
« Reply #1 on: 07 November, 2011, 17:33:19 »
For lighthouse push up slightly as it lands to stabalise it.
And bird. Umm just practice it loads! :-P
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By markool89 at 2011-08-06

Offline kendamatty

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Re: Help with Bird and balance in Lighthouse?
« Reply #2 on: 07 November, 2011, 17:47:29 »
If you've only been playing for 3 weeks chances are your kendama is not worn it enough yet from regular play to give the ball more "tack" which is what helps other players remain still during lighthouses.
As for birds, that is where practice makes perfect. As you get more and more used to subtle movements of the kendama, you will keep the hole pointing pertfectly down, its the angle of you holding the ken which you learn over time. But remember to just relax! It took me a couple of months not weeks to get these tricks even semi-consistently!

Offline GbH

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Re: Help with Bird and balance in Lighthouse?
« Reply #3 on: 07 November, 2011, 18:43:04 »
For Bird, I find that the method of pulling the ball up makes a big difference.  It's hard to explain in writing, but I start with only a tiny downward movement, then bring it upwards in such a way that the string remains taught for a bit longer than I'd usually expect.  It's less of a jerk, more a gradual accelleration.  This seems seems to help stabilise the ball and makes it easier to judge exactly the height it needs to rise to.

Offline hater

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Re: Help with Bird and balance in Lighthouse?
« Reply #4 on: 07 November, 2011, 19:38:47 »
Hi for the tips guys!!

@Mark.- I'm trying that, but It's totally impossible for me to stop it from fall -.-   But I will continue trying...

@Kendamatty.- My Kendama has a lot of scuffs, I have played it  alot, but maybe it isn't worn enough yet. I thought people was able to do all his trick in a new kendama too. OK, I will continue practicing. I think I'm a fast learner, but maybe that tricks are more hard that what I thought.

What tricks do you think I must control in 3 weeks?

@GbH.- I'm still learning to put the ball up always straight, so maybe that's a part of the problem too. I can do it well half of the times I try. I will try to learn to push it more slowly so it lands more stabilised. I can understand what you mean, but don't know if will be able to do it yet.

Thanks for your tips guys, hope to hear more from you so I can improve more every day. This is not my first skilltoy, I have been a yoyo player for the last 4 or 5 years and I think I'm good at it. I hope to be able to play Kendama as good as I yoyo...


Offline SamB

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Re: Help with Bird and balance in Lighthouse?
« Reply #5 on: 07 November, 2011, 21:23:18 »
Someone said that you're supposed to watch the tip of the spike as you balance a lighthouse. I'm not sure I do this but it may help. And I remember GbH telling me a while back to get a bird you need to know when the ball will be at its highest and catch it when its only just started falling.

As with all balance tricks I find it good to just hold the balance without the catch and try and walk around (for example put the ken on the ball like a lighthouse with yor hand, let go with it balanced then tr taking a step and turning while keeping the balance. You get bonus points for making it up the stairs). This is how I got the feel for lunars and how I'm (still!) trying to land a bamboo horse.

3 weeks is no time though. I'm impressed you even managed a single bird! Patience and practice is boring but true advice.

And obviously the thing with all kendama: KNEES!!
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Re: Help with Bird and balance in Lighthouse?
« Reply #6 on: 08 November, 2011, 22:01:40 »
You've been playing for 3 weeks, and you can hit Bird 1 in 20? I think you're doing really well!
"More practice" is the boring, but true answer.

Offline hater

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Re: Help with Bird and balance in Lighthouse?
« Reply #7 on: 09 November, 2011, 01:13:33 »
Hi guys! Good news, I focused all my attention in bird and now I usually can land it 1 of 10. Sometimes it is in the 14th, sometimes in the 5th and some times I'm nervous and can't make it till the 20th, but I'm starting to feel it and learning to balance the "landing" in the rim of the cup. Thanks to your tips I'm improving, I focused in stay calm, the angle, doing a slow acceleration in the start and trying to catch it when it's in his peak and it's really working. For me "more practice" is not boring, I'm really enjoying this skilltoy and if I feel tired of trying something I just switch to yoyo and relax myself. Kendama just stresses me a little more right now LOL

You all give me very good tips, thanks a lot :D You have a very good comunity here!

PS: For me I think is more easy to land a bird than balancing lighthouse, but I'm improving with it too, just more slowly.

Offline AlexSmith

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Re: Help with Bird and balance in Lighthouse?
« Reply #8 on: 13 November, 2011, 02:01:17 »
At first it seems easier to do birds consistently (compared to lighthouse). Eventually most people change their mind on this in my experience.
The 'looking at the spike while balancing' can definitely help, but you'll want to make the catch, get a little balance, then concentrate on the spike. I admit I don't 'spike-look' often, but in the past I've tried it out and noticed it can help. (Makes sense, a slight tilt in the ken's angle will result in a larger displacement of the spike than the slip-stall, so it should be easier for your eyes to pick up on which way the ken is leaning).

Also, what the Void said. Practise is the boring answer, but 99% of the time it is the correct answer with dama.

Offline GbH

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Re: Help with Bird and balance in Lighthouse?
« Reply #9 on: 13 November, 2011, 17:25:08 »
To better understand what's going when you're doing a Lighthouse, it's useful to think of two techniques that are commonly used by jugglers - 'balancing' and 'placement'.  These techniques can sometimes look very similar to the casual observer, yet are quite different in terms of the technique required to perform them.  Unusually, the kendama lighthouse trick commonly makes use of both of these, albeit at different times.

In simple terms, the difference between them is that, for a placement, the rest position is entirely stable.  Provided nothing moves, the object being 'placed' will remain in position naturally, without any need for human intervention.  A common juggling trick that demonstrates this effectively is when a performer places a ball on the very top of their head and it stays there.  There's absolutely no balancing required for this - it stays there because it's in a stable position (if this sounds unlikely, it works because human head's aren't properly round!).  As it happens, the ideal way to do a lighthouse is via the placement method, too.  You can prove this by placing the tama, hole downwards, on a flat work surface, then positioning the ken on top in the lighthouse position.  It'll  happily stay like that of its own accord - it's stable.  Thus, it's a placement.  Likewise, instead of putting the tama on a table, if you just hold it completely still, the same thing will happen. 

For a balance, though, the object in question is not - and never will be - stable.  Left to its own devices, it will always fall.  Thus, to stop this happening, the performer has to continually move the base that the balanced object is resting on, so as to compensate for the falling motion.  As soon as the performer stops this compensating motion (or, just gets it wrong...) the object will fall.  When undertaking such a balance, it's usual (and optimal) for the performer to concentrate entirely on the top of the object.  If this is obscured in some way (say, if you're balancing a chair on your chin...), then instead you'd look at the place that you assume the top to be.  Thus, for kendama, the reason why you might be looking at the spike.  Actually, the need to be looking at the object is a very good indicator of whether you're doing a placement or balance.  A placement should never need looking at (you should be able to do it with your eyes closed) whereas a balance always requires observation. 

So, back to the lighthouse.  Ideally, when you're in the lighthouse position, it's a placement.  If you can get into the lighthouse position and close your eyes without the ken falling off, then yes, that's the optimum position.  However, as you've most certainly found, you'll quite often find, when initially landing a lighthouse, that it's not stable at all.  As such, this is when you need to enter balancing mode, moving the tama to counteract the falling motion.  You could potentially maintain that position of balance indefinately, so long as you kept moving the tama around.  Ideally, though, you'll want to move the ken so that it changes from an unstable balance to a stable placement, but it does take a bit of practice to learn how to do this consistently.

So, in general, learning to balance an object like this takes a certain amount of skill.  The shorter the object, the more difficult it usually is to balance.  Something the size of kendama is actually quite a lot more difficult than, say, a garden broom.  As such, if you want to improve this aspect of your kendama playing, it might first be beneficial to practice balancing much longer objects.  Most relevant, I guess, will be to learn to balance things on your hand (which, isn't too difficult).  However, learning to do the same balance on your chin or forehead might give you a better understanding about how it works (it's a skill that you can use for other kendama tricks, too).

Hope this helps.

Offline hater

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Re: Help with Bird and balance in Lighthouse?
« Reply #10 on: 14 November, 2011, 00:47:58 »
Guys, thx a lot for taking the time to answer me. Lately I have been more focused in bird. I really like this trick and I have improved a lot thx to your tips, but I'm still learning the perfect angle/acceleration to land it more consistently.

With Lighthouse I think the problem is bigger because I have never tried any skilltoy related with balances. I have never bean able to land it in the right placement, so I always end trying to balance it.

Lately I have been playing a little game always I can. If I have something to do, go to the fridge, read a comic, do a call, whatever it is, I have to land a bird first (girlfriend is not always happy about it, just imagine LOL). This helps to improve a lot!! First times I have to try 20 times to be able to do what I want, now usually I have to try less than 10 and I can go an do it LOL In a couple of week when I can land in properly, will try it with Lighthouse. The rest of the time, I'm always trying combos and other stuff...

I'm really loving kendama!

Offline Mark

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Re: Help with Bird and balance in Lighthouse?
« Reply #11 on: 14 November, 2011, 10:49:20 »
I find lighthouse to be the easiest of the "hard" tricks. I really dont get why people have trouble with it. :P
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By markool89 at 2011-08-06

Offline BKA

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Re: Help with Bird and balance in Lighthouse?
« Reply #12 on: 14 November, 2011, 11:46:41 »
Lately I have been playing a little game always I can. If I have something to do, go to the fridge, read a comic, do a call, whatever it is, I have to land a bird first....

Sounds familiar! :)

Offline LarsVegas

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Re: Help with Bird and balance in Lighthouse?
« Reply #13 on: 14 November, 2011, 23:38:13 »
Yeah, lighthouse is much easier for me too. I can do a lighthouse every 1 of about 10 (sometimes more often). For birds it's about every 1 in a hundred (sometimes much less).
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Offline hater

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Re: Help with Bird and balance in Lighthouse?
« Reply #14 on: 16 November, 2011, 12:12:59 »
GbH thx a lot for your tips about lighthouse!! I have been trying it this past 2 days and focusing in the placement when landing and I have really improved a lot. I have gone from being unable to land it, to land it 1 of 10 or 15 !! I have found that if I look at the base after landing it, It's more easy for me to search the right stable point and maintain the balance.

Yesterday I landed my first bird with an around the world after it. I did it 2 times in a row. I feel I'm improving a lot with these 2 tricks and is all thanks to you guys! The tips in this post really helped a lot, I hope all the new players that come to the forum can see this someday, because it really helps!

@BKA: I didn't know about that post, but it's also a very good idea. You just have to land X before doing Y, that only will make you better!!

 

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