The Kendama Forum

Forum categories => Tricks => Topic started by: BatDancer on 14 July, 2011, 07:40:33

Title: Tama grip (inverted/upside down tricks)
Post by: BatDancer on 14 July, 2011, 07:40:33
Is Falling Down simply an inverted Around The Prefecture in a Tama grip?

Similarly, is Jumping Stick an inverted, Dama grip Earth Turn?


Just a daft idea...
Title: Re: Tama grip (inverted/upside down tricks)
Post by: Harrydh3 on 14 July, 2011, 11:08:45
its lighthouse then spike.
Title: Re: Tama grip (inverted/upside down tricks)
Post by: The Void on 14 July, 2011, 12:10:48
I think BD knows what the trick *is*, Harry, but was referring to the relationships between tricks.

For example, I've always thought that Aeroplane and Furiken were essentially the same trick, just with the initial holds of ken and ball swapped.

So, if you want to think of it that way[1], then I'd say yes, Falling Down equates to Arnd Pref in Tama grip.

However, I don't think your second analogy holds up, since the ball turns in one case, and the ken in the other.
 1. ie if you want to confuse everyone that bit more! :P
Title: Re: Tama grip (inverted/upside down tricks)
Post by: BatDancer on 14 July, 2011, 13:45:54
Fair point Void. How about Spike - Whirlwind Spike or Airplane - "Whirlwind Ball"[1] as 'upside down' Jumping Stick / Earth Turn?

Not sure why I was thinking about 'upside down' tricks. Perhaps I should stop doing all those headstands...
 1. Spin the ball while the ken goes straight up and down
Title: Re: Tama grip (inverted/upside down tricks)
Post by: The Void on 14 July, 2011, 14:06:02
Argh, stop it, you're making my head hurt!!
Title: Re: Tama grip (inverted/upside down tricks)
Post by: Harrydh3 on 14 July, 2011, 14:13:14
Quote
Spike - Whirlwind Spike or Airplane - "Whirlwind Ball"[1] as 'upside down' Jumping Stick / Earth Turn?


I cant for the life of me work out what you're talking about.   ???
 
Title: Re: Tama grip (inverted/upside down tricks)
Post by: AlexSmith on 14 July, 2011, 17:22:17
One of my friends was doing 'whirlwind ball' jumping sticks in his last edit. Neat little trick

I've hit stilt whirlwind ball to in before, kind of a weird fun little trick. (upside down bird flip in? :P)
Title: Re: Tama grip (inverted/upside down tricks)
Post by: BatDancer on 14 July, 2011, 21:46:05
Alex, you're a marvel. No-one else seemed to like the idea of upside down tricks. However, I think you're describing an upside down Bird - Earth Turn...

Harry, picture if you will the execution of a Jumping Stick[1]. Now imagine it upside down, while holding the ball instead of the ken. You have a Furiken - Whirlwind Spike[2]. THAT's what I'm talking about... The components do the same thing, but you're holding onto the 'other' bit. It's just an idea that came to me while I was thinking about other tricks to try...

 1. Airplane - 360o flip of the ken
 2. 360o filp of the ken before catching the ball on the spike
Title: Re: Tama grip (inverted/upside down tricks)
Post by: BKA on 15 July, 2011, 13:10:55
....holding the ball instead of the ken.

I think you mean holding the ken instead of the ball!
Title: Re: Tama grip (inverted/upside down tricks)
Post by: Harrydh3 on 15 July, 2011, 13:31:39
Quote
Harry, picture if you will the execution of a Jumping Stick[1]. Now imagine it upside down, while holding the ball instead of the ken. You have a Furiken - Whirlwind Spike[2]. THAT's what I'm talking about... The components do the same thing, but you're holding onto the 'other' bit. It's just an idea that came to me while I was thinking about other tricks to try...


ok i think i'm on the page :P
like an inverted  whirlwind earth turn...
That sounds silly hard!
Title: Re: Tama grip (inverted/upside down tricks)
Post by: The Void on 15 July, 2011, 13:52:47
No-one else seemed to like the idea of upside down tricks.

Don't get me wrong, I think it can be a really neat way of coming up with new tricks and variations by thinking "Okay, I can do Trick X, but what if I invert some of the trick's properties..... AHA! Trick Y!"

However, having come up with Trick Y, I think it's confusing to describe it as "inverted X", because there are different interpretations of what constitutes an inversion.
Example: Bird. Is "inverted Bird" the same as Bat, or is "inverted Bird" Bamboo Horse/Stilts? Both of those tricks contain inversions of parts of the elements of Bird!

So I would say sure, use the thought process to develop your tricks, but once you've come up with Trick Y, just describe exactly what the trick elements are as simply as you can.
Title: Re: Tama grip (inverted/upside down tricks)
Post by: BKA on 15 July, 2011, 13:55:16
I altered the title of this thread, to be more helpful in the future for searches on this topic.
Title: Re: Tama grip (inverted/upside down tricks)
Post by: The Void on 15 July, 2011, 14:01:38
....is Jumping Stick an inverted, Dama grip Earth Turn?
However, I don't think your second analogy holds up, since the ball turns in one case, and the ken in the other.
Just to highlight the confusion factor, I now disagree with myself, and think that the second example holds up too! :)
Title: Re: Tama grip (inverted/upside down tricks)
Post by: shalafi on 29 August, 2011, 09:22:35
I like this idea of inverted tricks. Also "inverse tricks: As aeroplane <-> furiken

Actually scoop the spike is esentially a inverted spike
Bamboo horse is an inverted bird
And a moon lander is "just" an inverted big cup...

What about an inverted "around the world" ?

It is like: Small cup mooon landing -> (half) flip to moon landing -> lighthouse -> falling down. Nice!

An inverted "Around europe" will be even more awesome.
Title: Re: Tama grip (inverted/upside down tricks)
Post by: The Void on 29 August, 2011, 12:04:18
I like this idea of inverted tricks. Also "inverse tricks: As aeroplane <-> furiken

Actually scoop the spike is esentially a inverted spike
Nearly, but in Scoop Spike, after the catch is made, the whole ken is turned upside down. That doesn't happen in Spike.
Quote
Bamboo horse is an inverted bird
But the ken turns on the way up in BH, so you'd have to say it's an inverted swing to Bird
Quote
And a moon lander is "just" an inverted big cup...

What about an inverted "around the world" ?

It is like: Small cup mooon landing -> (half) flip to moon landing -> lighthouse -> falling down. Nice!
Sounds like one for Matty!
Quote

An inverted "Around europe" will be even more awesome.
Sure would!
Title: Re: Tama grip (inverted/upside down tricks)
Post by: HansNickmans on 30 August, 2011, 20:52:22
I actually thought I invented stilts by using this way of thinking, imaging that he ken could balance on a tama like a tama could balance in bird (at that point I thought it was impossible). I don't think it's about inverting tricks, but inverting the 'pauzes'. Kendama is mainly going from one pauze to another with manipulations of the ken/tama in between. With pauzes I mean big cup, small cup, base cup, spike, birds, bats, wingwalkers, clifftops, thumb traps.... and manipulations are things like whirlwinds, earth turns, gunslingers, suicide tricks,... It is probably more detailed than those two categories, but this covers the majority of kendama tricks. Coming up with new things is taking random pauzes and putting different manipulations in between.

Crazy example: Bat --> Ken flip --> Bird --> Gunslinger --> Wingwalker --> Earth turn --> Spike

Now back to the 'inversions'. You can invert the pauzes very easily:
- Big cup --> Big cup lunar
- Small cup --> Small cup lunar
- Middle cup --> Lighthouse
- Spike --> Airplane
- Bird --> Stilts (both small and big)
- Bat --> Hammer (or what are they called?)
And than we get to the hard (or impossible ones)
--> Clifftop --> impossible?
--> Wingwalker --> impossible?
--> Slip grip special --> Depending on the length of the ken, I think it could be done...

The manipulations than are added in the same fashion, UFO's, Jumping stick, typhoons, again suicides...Basically any move that  flips (or doesn't) the tama or ken around any of its possibe axes. But the inversion only takes place on the pauzes.

Of course you can add the different grips, and the switching between grips to make even more crazy combo's, which supports the fact that the number of tricks is endless...

These were my thoughts on inverting tricks, my mind dares to wander at some times...

ps: One of the crazy pauzes not mentioned is 'naughty bird', as seen in this video Kendama New Trick "Naughty Bird" . (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2colggM_s0#ws)   I really want to see someone inverting that one! I'd love to see a naughty bamboo horse
Title: Re: Tama grip (inverted/upside down tricks)
Post by: MasterKatra42 on 31 August, 2011, 05:13:15
What about an inverted "around the world" ?

It is like: Small cup mooon landing -> (half) flip to moon landing -> lighthouse -> falling down. Nice!

Got that off camera twice today.  Boom.

I often think of things being upside down.  Upside down earth turn and jumping stick are the downstab versions of the regular tricks, because you're doing the trick, but inverting the direction you're doing it in.  When you switch what you're holding (ken or dama), I don't think it's inverse or upside down, I think it's mirrored.  Bird and stilts are mirror tricks.  The configuration is the same, but the roles are reversed.
Title: Re: Tama grip (inverted/upside down tricks)
Post by: shalafi on 01 September, 2011, 12:16:08
What about an inverted "around the world" ?

It is like: Small cup mooon landing -> (half) flip to moon landing -> lighthouse -> falling down. Nice!

Got that off camera twice today.  Boom.

That may be a cool VotW if you catch it on camera.

I was just wondering about slip grip special "mirrored"
Title: Re: Tama grip (inverted/upside down tricks)
Post by: The Void on 02 September, 2011, 00:56:18
Now back to the 'inversions'. You can invert the pauzes very easily:
- Bat --> Hammer (or what are they called?)
Axe
Quote
And than we get to the hard (or impossible ones)
--> Clifftop --> impossible?
--> Wingwalker --> impossible?
--> Slip grip special --> Depending on the length of the ken, I think it could be done...
If we're talking about a competition kendama, then Slip Grip Special and Clifftop are clearly not possible. If you allow a Wingwalker to be "Bird that doesn't touch the spike" (either directly in line with the sara-do, or only just off line from it, then a Wingwalker is just possible to Invert.
Quote
ps: One of the crazy pauzes not mentioned is 'naughty bird', as seen in this video Kendama New Trick "Naughty Bird" . (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2colggM_s0#ws)   I really want to see someone inverting that one! I'd love to see a naughty bamboo horse
Ha ha, Naughty Bird - Neat! How solid are you at that? ;)
Title: Re: Tama grip (inverted/upside down tricks)
Post by: AlexSmith on 02 September, 2011, 01:44:40
Ha! A month or so ago I was trying to see if 'inverted naughty bid' was a feasible trick. After playing around with it for a while I gave up for the time being.
Title: Re: Tama grip (inverted/upside down tricks)
Post by: AlexSmith on 02 September, 2011, 01:46:56
Also, Eric Martin and I were fooling around with 'inverted gripstalls' one day.
We discovered they weren't too tough... Once you clamp down on em with your thumb haha. I put them in the 'silly but sorta fun' trick category.
Title: Re: Tama grip (inverted/upside down tricks)
Post by: Dave on 04 September, 2011, 14:12:53
Right this lot sounds a bit too silly but after reading this thread i went outside and played with loads of ideas. i got a couple on film but i landed a lot more but they are super hard:

i got:
Inverse around the village: (Lunar landing to spike) :)
Inverse around Japan: (small cup  Lunar to Big Lunar spike)
Inverse around the world: (see above and film below)
Inverse around Europe: (Small Lunar spike Big Lunar spike Lighthouse Spike) (see film below)
Inverse Around the Cosmos: (cross stick stall spike small lunar spike big lunar spike lighthouse spike)
Inverse around the galaxy: (cross stick stall spike jumping stick small lunar spike jumping stick big lunar spike jumping stick lighthouse spike jumping stick)

had to do it for a laugh but the vids rant great:

http://juggling.tv/6666

http://juggling.tv/6667

http://juggling.tv/6668

Title: Re: Tama grip (inverted/upside down tricks)
Post by: The Void on 04 September, 2011, 14:19:29
Top job Dave!

You missed out the Spikes in your description of Inverse Around Europe (but they are in the video)

Have to take issue with your Inverse 'Cosmos though: The first stall is the 'wrong' side of the sara-do (although the only possible version, so I'll let you off that), but also, you're missing the Spike catches.

Right, I'm off to Tesco for some bread, but when I come back, it's practice session time for me. I really need to work on my lunar transitions. Cheers dude!
Title: Re: Tama grip (inverted/upside down tricks)
Post by: Dave on 04 September, 2011, 14:40:55
Oops :) What is Around the Cosmos with no spikes called?
Title: Re: Tama grip (inverted/upside down tricks)
Post by: The Void on 04 September, 2011, 15:40:38
Around Dave?
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