Author Topic: Inventing New Tricks  (Read 8484 times)

Offline AlexSmith

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Inventing New Tricks
« on: 09 July, 2011, 18:28:05 »
Have you ever done a trick that you legitimately believe someone else hasn't done before?
I suppose the weaker version (though more provable) would be have you ever done a trick that you haven't seen anyone else do on film? (in which case go film it? Haha, not that I play dama for the fame/glory)

I thought of starting this thread after talking with Harry about the "beadwalk" trick I do in miniedit 7. That's one trick I've done that I haven't seen before.
Another (though I doubt I'm actually the first to think of it, maybe just one of the first to film it) is the string grab sideways lighthouse (also miniedit 7). Really need to come up with a more succinct name for that one though...

So I guess has anyone seen these tricks done before? And what tricks might you have been the first to do?

Offline The Void

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Re: Inventing New Tricks
« Reply #1 on: 09 July, 2011, 19:43:32 »
It's a good question. Personally, I don't think I'm that inventive with my kendama tricks. I've probably come up with one or two slight variations which may be new, a couple of which I have on film but haven't released yet[1].

The string-grab sideways lighthouse you mention I think I have seen Donald do, but not the sideways somersault extra. Actually we called a similar trick in Knees "Hanging Triangle Lighthouse" (Tsurushi Sankaku Toudai). A lot of the stuff in Knees is original, and was invented by Donald[2] whilst bored in Germany - so I think he's probably invented more tricks than anyone else I can think of.
 1. No, I'm not going to tell you what they are!  ;)
 2. Hey Donald, got your new laptop yet? This forum needs to hear more from the King Of The String!
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Offline kendamatty

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Re: Inventing New Tricks
« Reply #2 on: 09 July, 2011, 22:11:37 »
I always got quite a buzz just inventing the most ridiculous trick and several cups o tea later I may just clinch it, but 9 in 10 ideas are still on the back burner. I remember getting a mad rush from getting my first lunar, and that seemed ridiculous for a whole year because back then there weren't the high volumes of videos so you never saw them. I think this trick is probably my hardest to date and still haven't seen one, I was punching above my weight back then in 2009, now its hard to really step ahead with a totally un thought of trick, sure theyre still out there though to be laced! Next is around the wing walker, been trying that at the kettle for a long time, will maybe get there but will most definitely have caffeine poisoning...:-)
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=GB#/profile?user=kendamatty&v=1aIJDzJC7R0&view=videos

[EDIT by BKA: I think this is the intended link: ]
« Last Edit: 09 July, 2011, 23:47:22 by BKA »

Offline AlexSmith

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Re: Inventing New Tricks
« Reply #3 on: 10 July, 2011, 00:54:47 »
That around the slipstall is nice! I hit around the grip in miniedit 8 but I've never tried it with slip before.

I think I'll have to pick up a copy of knees once I get home from vacation, I imagine there will be a fair number of tricks in there to learn! I have a copy of a Japanese book that I'm not really sure the name of, and I've learned a few tricks from it.  The majority of them are very standard and simple though.

Also, around the wing would be insane! I think I remember seeing you do a flip between wings once (world edit perhaps?) and my mind was blown. I've always found wing stalls devilishly hard!

Offline GbH

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Re: Inventing New Tricks
« Reply #4 on: 10 July, 2011, 11:12:12 »
In my previous kendama videos, I've certainly tried to incorporate things that I've not seen done elsewhere.  Alternatively, failing that, I've tried to present more commonly known techniques in a way that might not be expected.  If you think about things in the right way, it's quite easy to do that, even if you don't have extreme levels of skill.  Just mix up ideas from lots of different sources and see what happens.  Yet, ultimately, it's hard to know whether anything is really new.

Actually, I'm not sure it really matters that much.  Over the years, in the context of using others props, I've seen loads of "new tricks" that most certainly were genuinely new, but were not necessarily any more interesting than stuff that was already out there.  Instead, I think that it's better to be thinking 'how can I make this more watchable?', rather than worry too much about whether any particular core technique has been done previously.

Offline AlexSmith

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Re: Inventing New Tricks
« Reply #5 on: 11 July, 2011, 05:27:30 »
That's very true, bringing your own style to the table is essential when performing any trick (one can only hope they have good style :p).

I suppose there are sort of two categories for 'new' tricks. The first would be a completely new technique incorporating previously unseen elements. The second would be a technical move that simply hasn't been performed before - say a stilt quintuple flip stilt? (that's one I'm SURE hasn't been done yet!)

Offline The Void

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Re: Inventing New Tricks
« Reply #6 on: 11 July, 2011, 13:52:26 »
I suppose there are sort of two categories for 'new' tricks. The first would be a completely new technique incorporating previously unseen elements. The second would be a technical move that simply hasn't been performed before - say a stilt quintuple flip stilt? (that's one I'm SURE hasn't been done yet!)
I guess creating a new sequence counts too. EG Lighthouse to Base Cup to Moon to Stabbing Heaven to Gunslinger Earth Turn[1]. Although that's perhaps less "inventive" than "systematic".
 1. No, I haven't done it.
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Offline Airrick

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Re: Inventing New Tricks
« Reply #7 on: 12 July, 2011, 21:32:13 »
This move has been done but im pretty sure not many people know how to do it.
Pull up spike but when you pull up you spin the ken around your thumb then spike!

Offline The Void

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Re: Inventing New Tricks
« Reply #8 on: 12 July, 2011, 22:23:04 »
Like a pen spin? Sounds hard!
If you don't want to buy my books, then why not ask your local library to order them in, and read them for free? That would help too. Cheers!

Offline Airrick

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Re: Inventing New Tricks
« Reply #9 on: 12 July, 2011, 23:06:36 »
Eh, its not very difficult. If you know how to do this trick with a pencil. Its easy.

Offline AlexSmith

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Re: Inventing New Tricks
« Reply #10 on: 13 July, 2011, 01:34:17 »
Hmm I'll have to try that, I learned how to spin pens around my thumb a few years ago and now its just an unbreakable habit whenever I have a pen or pencil in my hand...
Usually my fingerflip (gunslinger?) tricks involve spinning the ken around my middle finger, which I place under little cup. I really should learn them around my pointer finger, would allow for better flow when doing fingerflip tricks in a line

Offline Looby

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Thinking Outside The Box - Unusual Kendama Tricks/Styles?
« Reply #11 on: 26 July, 2011, 22:34:05 »
Outside of Kendama I've learnt to diabolo over the course of a few years and found myself wanting to create quirky original tricks rather than going down the technical/numbers route.  This hasn't changed over the years and I still find myself feeling inadequate alongside most diaboloists who have only played for 6 months. 

Unfortunately things haven't changed and alas I see myself trying to apply the same thinking to Kendama which is proving MUCH harder.  The Void got me interested in the 'Hydra' setup (using two tamas tied together) which has been fairly successful with Dave's input, first had a play at a convention in Bath, England and landed a 'ball swap furiken', with Dave landing a double ball stall a couple of months later.

Hydra Furiken (Bath Upchuck 2011) - juggling videos hosted @ Juggling.tv
Dave's Double Ball Stall (Lestival 2011) - juggling videos hosted @ Juggling.tv

Other than this I've played with the idea of not using a tama at all (as below) or even separating the ken, crosspiece, and tama, and integrating some juggling (thanks to Dave and Tom Derrick).

Crosspiece Earthturn Kendama Trick - juggling videos hosted @ Juggling.tv

I think Matt Rice is on the right lines with the bead trick.  This is the definition of thinking outside the box.



Anyone else dabbled with the not so obvious?

« Last Edit: 26 July, 2011, 22:38:34 by Looby »

Offline AlexSmith

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Re: Thinking Outside The Box - Unusual Kendama Tricks/Styles?
« Reply #12 on: 27 July, 2011, 06:39:20 »
I made another thread similar to this about 'inventing new tricks'.
Check out Kendama Edmontons miniedit 7, I have a couple creative tricks in there.

I remember when Matt put that little vid out, I had been playing around with bead grab tricks around that same time. They're fun, I have a couple new variations I haven't filmed yet actually...

 

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