Author Topic: Kendama Weight dissapointment, Help needed.  (Read 8737 times)

Offline mabulrub

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Kendama Weight dissapointment, Help needed.
« on: 09 September, 2015, 14:31:51 »
Kendama weight is a topic that might have been discussed a lot. But I have an issue and am after your thoughts guys and opinions to stop my disappointment and reduce my loss of money on so many kendamas in a short time :)

The story

I have had communications with many kendama suppliers, I have dealt with at least 4 Kendama online shops, I have made lots of research, I have been playing for couple of months and I came to conclusion, this game is spreading and the online shops are destroying the reputation of the game by not being honest, not cooperative and sometimes misleading.

Sorry for this introduction, however I consider you as one of the VERY cooperative and informative team. I am reaching out for you for information based on which I will make a purchase that hopefully does not disappoint me after all. and it should be very soon.:).
I am after a certain weight according to my short experience. I have owned Kaizen Zebra, Krom X Autumn, Ozora Keyaki and KROM deluxe walnut the cross

Kaizen was my first kendama and bought it just for the look and i don't like how it plays,  it is very light, it came already chipped, unbalanced and did not break in so I just left it.
KROM X Autumn (major disappointment, the tama 70g and the ken 78g, makes cup tricks very difficult for me, and the tama seems not to be completely round since it wobbles on landing on cup), it might be good for balance tricks that require tama grip though.
Ozora Keyaki ( I just seem that I love natty's). I read a lot of good reviews about it. when I received it with big expectations, however I was also disappointed with a 80g tama and 68g ken (12 g difference) and it seems like it will never break in, this killed my joy, but it opened my eyes on the weight thing since it is heavy, at it was the most one that I could easily do cup tricks with and it improved my moshe kame though it became tiring :), for some reason earth-turns are difficult with it and the bird is extremely difficult.
The KROM walnut the cross, disappointed again, Very light (Small tama smaller than others) 70 g tama with 62g ken (Balance tricks are very difficult most probably due to the light ken).

After trying all these I have come to prefer heavier tamas since they make cup tricks alot easier due to weight but not 80 gs, I believe 75g would be ideal. I liked the Ozora ken shape more among all. I would prefer a ken that is little lighter than the tama to help the tama settle on the cup due to weight difference (not more than 5g however).

After all this, I am after a kendama that has a 75g Tama, 70g Ken (there should be some stores where we chose the weight we prefer, right?)  breaks in nicely and really durable and playable for cup tricks and balance tricks, I am following TKA international tests and wanna go for Dan 1 and Dan 2 before i start free styling to start on solid basis.

I would appreciate your thoughts and recommendations from the  experience you  I have paid lots of money with lots of frustration, (Exchange is not an option for me being international customer , cost wise since I will bear shipping costs).

Thanks All :)

I really appreciate you taking the time to read this long "may be boring" query and thanks in advance for your valuable advise.

Offline The Void

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Re: Kendama Weight dissapointment, Help needed.
« Reply #1 on: 10 September, 2015, 05:58:25 »
Sorry that you're having a frustrating time with weights.
Personally I've never weight-matched a kendama, and always just played with whatever came out of the packet. But having said that, I suppose I have my favourites, and perhaps the feel of the weight contributes to this.
Not much help, but I also sent you a DM.

Good luck.
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Offline LarsVegas

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Re: Kendama Weight dissapointment, Help needed.
« Reply #2 on: 10 September, 2015, 12:54:45 »
I don't think that weight is all. I have just weighted (for the first time) my trusty yellow Ozora and it's 71g (ken) vs. 79g (tama). I passed exams up to 1st Dan with it and that I failed at my first attempt to 2nd Dan is definitely not the Kendama's fault. I just failed Moshikame ...

Here are some other numbers of my Kendamas
Matte black Friday: 78 ken - 79 tama
Green Ozora Galaxy: 63 ken - 57 tama
Light Blue Yumu: 71 ken - 89 tama
Green Sunrise: 75 ken - 73 tama

Some are even further apart, some are almost the same. But I still prefer my yellow Ozora over everything else. Don't put too much weight on weight ...
Why don't you just take a standard birch/cherrywood combination?
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Offline mabulrub

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Re: Kendama Weight dissapointment, Help needed.
« Reply #3 on: 10 September, 2015, 13:01:56 »
Thanks for your answer and the effort to add details.
If I had an Ozora that is 79/71 I would be happy

The green Ozora Galaxy is just too light. 
The weight is in my opinion important for control..

But I agree with you it will never be the Kendama fault :)

Out of curiosity. How long did you prepare for Dan 1 before you took the test

Offline mabulrub

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Re: Kendama Weight dissapointment, Help needed.
« Reply #4 on: 10 September, 2015, 13:03:21 »


I don't think that weight is all. I have just weighted (for the first time) my trusty yellow Ozora and it's 71g (ken) vs. 79g (tama). I passed exams up to 1st Dan with it and that I failed at my first attempt to 2nd Dan is definitely not the Kendama's fault. I just failed Moshikame ...

Here are some other numbers of my Kendamas
Matte black Friday: 78 ken - 79 tama
Green Ozora Galaxy: 63 ken - 57 tama
Light Blue Yumu: 71 ken - 89 tama
Green Sunrise: 75 ken - 73 tama

Some are even further apart, some are almost the same. But I still prefer my yellow Ozora over everything else. Don't put too much weight on weight ...
Why don't you just take a standard birch/cherrywood combination?

Thanks for your answer and the effort to add details.
If I had an Ozora that is 79/71 I would be happy

The green Ozora Galaxy is just too light. 
The weight is in my opinion important for control..

But I agree with you it will never be the Kendama fault :)

Out of curiosity. How long did you prepare for Dan 1 before you took the test
Thanks for your answer and the effort to add details.
If I had an Ozora that is 79/71 I would be happy

The green Ozora Galaxy is just too light. 
The weight is in my opinion important for control..

But I agree with you it will never be the Kendama fault :)

Out of curiosity. How long did you prepare for Dan 1 before you took the test


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Offline LarsVegas

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Re: Kendama Weight dissapointment, Help needed.
« Reply #5 on: 10 September, 2015, 21:48:27 »
The green Ozora Galaxy is just too light. 

Out of curiosity. How long did you prepare for Dan 1 before you took the test

1. Yes, the Galaxy is too light - difficult to control. And the Yumu's tama is too heavy - difficult to turn. But these are extremes.
2. I took the 1. Dan one year after the Pre-Dan. But that was only because of (missing) opportunity. I did not meet any JKA examiner before. I think I specifically practiced for the exam for about 2 months. @shalafi 's KendamApp was a great help - if you like computer-aided support.
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Offline Buttkraken

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Re: Kendama Weight dissapointment, Help needed.
« Reply #6 on: 17 September, 2015, 20:57:33 »
the ken on my green ozora galaxy is on of my heaviest kens. but dont think too much about the weight, its different with every kendama. and if you are really that dissapointed in your purchase or you feel something is wrong with the kendama, try customer service. i know a lot of the different brands have great customer service

Offline peterthake

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Re: Kendama Weight dissapointment, Help needed.
« Reply #7 on: 22 September, 2015, 23:45:11 »
This is an interesting thread. The only kendama with a consistent weight is a plastic one ;D!  As a kendama retailer I just wanted to say that even within the same batch of kendama there can be a wide variation in weights, and this can be more noticeable in the more exotic woods (they tend to be denser so any variation is bigger). This is true for all the brands I have ever sold.  Personally I weigh a few of each model on very accurate scales and try to give an average approximate weight for that model in the product description, but at best this is merely going to be indicative.

I am sorry the OP thinks "online shops are destroying the reputation of the game by not being honest". Wooden kendama simply vary in weight, there is no dishonesty.
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Offline mabulrub

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Re: Kendama Weight dissapointment, Help needed.
« Reply #8 on: 23 September, 2015, 16:45:51 »
This is an interesting thread. The only kendama with a consistent weight is a plastic one ;D!  As a kendama retailer I just wanted to say that even within the same batch of kendama there can be a wide variation in weights, and this can be more noticeable in the more exotic woods (they tend to be denser so any variation is bigger). This is true for all the brands I have ever sold.  Personally I weigh a few of each model on very accurate scales and try to give an average approximate weight for that model in the product description, but at best this is merely going to be indicative.

I am sorry the OP thinks "online shops are destroying the reputation of the game by not being honest". Wooden kendama simply vary in weight, there is no dishonesty.
Well, thank you for your opinion and clarification. If you are a seller then I'm sure you don't want to say that I have Kendamas that are balanced with 5 grams difference and then sell ones with more than 10 grams difference.  This is what I meant by honesty.
It is understandable that differences occur and in no way a seller should specify weights when they are themselves are not sure.

I'm not sure if this is the right forum but if you sell online, could you please send me a link to your store?

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Offline peterthake

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Re: Kendama Weight dissapointment, Help needed.
« Reply #9 on: 23 September, 2015, 19:54:47 »
I have never said in any product description that "I have Kendamas that are balanced with 5 grams difference". I have only ever said what the average or typical weight of the overall kendama is. I would never guarantee a kendama to have a particular weight (unless it was made of a synthetic material, and even then there would be a margin of error).
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Offline mabulrub

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Re: Kendama Weight dissapointment, Help needed.
« Reply #10 on: 23 September, 2015, 20:09:01 »
I have never said in any product description that "I have Kendamas that are balanced with 5 grams difference". I have only ever said what the average or typical weight of the overall kendama is. I would never guarantee a kendama to have a particular weight (unless it was made of a synthetic material, and even then there would be a margin of error).
I would respect you for that. :)

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Offline peterthake

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Re: Kendama Weight dissapointment, Help needed.
« Reply #11 on: 23 September, 2015, 20:14:52 »
Just for the sake of argument, if you are making a kendama out of wood, which is a non-homogeneous material (the density varies), and you are making all the pieces to a set uniform size and volume, then it is almost impossible to achieve a 'balanced' kendama except by luck with a random assembly of the wooden pieces. I suppose one way to achieve a balanced kendama might be to weigh each ken and tama and then manually match the most similarly weighted  pieces before assembly. As far as I know, no manufacturer does this. To compound this, the weight of wood will vary over time due to drying, humidity etc. So a carefully balanced and weighed kendama might be quite different by the time it reaches the customer.

Can I ask, what does 'balanced' mean to the kendama community? I had always thought this referred not just to the weight but also the proportions.

Mabulrub, I forgot to say that my web site url is in my signature.
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Offline mabulrub

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Re: Kendama Weight dissapointment, Help needed.
« Reply #12 on: 23 September, 2015, 21:00:22 »
Just for the sake of argument, if you are making a kendama out of wood, which is a non-homogeneous material (the density varies), and you are making all the pieces to a set uniform size and volume, then it is almost impossible to achieve a 'balanced' kendama except by luck with a random assembly of the wooden pieces. I suppose one way to achieve a balanced kendama might be to weigh each ken and tama and then manually match the most similarly weighted  pieces before assembly. As far as I know, no manufacturer does this. To compound this, the weight of wood will vary over time due to drying, humidity etc. So a carefully balanced and weighed kendama might be quite different by the time it reaches the customer.

Can I ask, what does 'balanced' mean to the kendama community? I had always thought this referred not just to the weight but also the proportions.

Mabulrub, I forgot to say that my web site url is in my signature.
Yes I have understood that the hard way :).  Yes you are absolutely right regarding balances. It is the structure of the Kendama that makes it balanced, but in my opinion the weight does help in that. And from what I have read in this forum and other places certain tricks require a Kendama that has a Ken as close as possible to the Tama regarding weight.
I have just got a TK16 which is 72/68 and is very balanced and playable in a nice way. On the other hand I a have Kayaki that is 80/68 and for me is hard to get used to. And you are right no manufacturer does match weight, I have contacted one online store who offers to match weight but the price increases of course.

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Offline peterthake

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Re: Kendama Weight dissapointment, Help needed.
« Reply #13 on: 24 September, 2015, 18:24:32 »
I have just got a TK16 which is 72/68 and is very balanced and playable in a nice way. On the other hand I a have Kayaki that is 80/68 and for me is hard to get used to. And you are right no manufacturer does match weight, I have contacted one online store who offers to match weight but the price increases of course.

Hi Mabulrub,

I don't think you will beat that TK16 weight match, you got lucky there!

Yes the price would increase quite a bit. And it is not possible to match parts of kendamas when they are in sealed packaging (like Ozora are). I think the only way a seller could do that is if the kendama were fresh from the factory and had not been assembled yet. I think if there was a call for this sort of precision balanced kendama then it could be done by someone. I amm not volunteering though ;)

Pete
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Offline mabulrub

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Re: Kendama Weight dissapointment, Help needed.
« Reply #14 on: 24 September, 2015, 20:34:23 »
I have just got a TK16 which is 72/68 and is very balanced and playable in a nice way. On the other hand I a have Kayaki that is 80/68 and for me is hard to get used to. And you are right no manufacturer does match weight, I have contacted one online store who offers to match weight but the price increases of course.

Hi Mabulrub,

I don't think you will beat that TK16 weight match, you got lucky there!

Yes the price would increase quite a bit. And it is not possible to match parts of kendamas when they are in sealed packaging (like Ozora are). I think the only way a seller could do that is if the kendama were fresh from the factory and had not been assembled yet. I think if there was a call for this sort of precision balanced kendama then it could be done by someone. I amm not volunteering though ;)

Pete
You got it right Pete. What they said is that they wanted to match such need from Kendama players. They weight the patches they have and match Ken and dama to max of 5 grams difference, left overs are sold as spare parts.  I believe this is innovative in the Kendama world.

By the way I have visited your website and I liked it, one day I will get one of that "Tiger Kendamas" if I'm not mistaken :)

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